Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/21/2000 01:47 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                                                                        
                  February 21, 2000                                                                                             
                      1:47 p.m.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                                                                  
Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                                                                             
Senator Dave Donley                                                                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Torgerson                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 259                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to criminal impersonation."                                                                                    
          -HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 30                                                                                                  
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska                                                               
relating to the repeal of regulations by the legislature.                                                                       
     -MOVED CS SJR 30(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SB 259 - No previous action to report.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SJR 30 - No previous action to report.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jim Pound                                                                                                                   
Senator Taylor's Office                                                                                                         
State Capitol Building                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Presented SB 259 and SJR 30                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Anne Carpeneti                                                                                                              
Assistant Attorney General                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
P.O. Box 110300                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports SB 259                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Lt. David Hudson                                                                                                                
Alaska State Troopers                                                                                                           
5700 East Tudor Road                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska 99507                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports SB 259                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Blair McCune                                                                                                                
Public Defender                                                                                                                 
900 West 5th Avenue, #200                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports SB 259                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Glenn Hackney                                                                                                               
AARP                                                                                                                            
1136 Sunset Drive                                                                                                               
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports SB 259                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-7, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Judiciary Committee meeting to                                                                 
order at 1:47 p.m.  Present were Senator Halford, Senator Donley                                                                
and Chairman Taylor.  The first order of business to come before                                                                
the committee was SB 259.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                    SB 259-THEFT OF IDENTITY                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JIM POUND, staff of Senator Taylor, stated the modification in                                                              
SB 259 will add the words "commit a crime" rather than just using                                                               
the word "defraud," allowing criminal intent for other uses of                                                                  
false identification (ID).  The crime will be a misdemeanor.                                                                    
Criminal activity will include minors trying to buy alcohol and                                                                 
cigarettes with false ID cards and the use of false ID to obtain a                                                              
checking account with the intent of fraud.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD asked if there is anything the legislature can do                                                               
to help victims clear their record.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented the bill was drafted in a hurry and                                                                   
everything has not been included.  The true victim in this type of                                                              
crime is the person whose identity is stolen, and he would like                                                                 
this legislation to motivate credit card companies and credit                                                                   
reporting agencies to work with the victims in clearing their                                                                   
records.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 370                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANNE CARPENETI, Department of Law (DOL), stated DOL supports                                                                
this legislation.  With a stolen credit card number a person can                                                                
obtain a social security number through a web site.  With this                                                                  
information people can open checking accounts, buy cars, open                                                                   
accounts at department stores, etc. and do serious damage to a                                                                  
persons credit.  It can take years to clear a credit report that                                                                
has been damaged in this way.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI said DOL has been looking at this issue in a bigger                                                               
sense than just identity theft.  The Governor has introduced a bill                                                             
that makes criminal impersonation a class B felony if an                                                                        
identification item has been stolen and fraudulent acts are the                                                                 
result thereby harming the persons financial reputation making this                                                             
person the victim of the crime.  In the past the police have                                                                    
considered the credit card companies, banks, department stores,                                                                 
etc. the victims, rather than the individual with the problem.  The                                                             
Governor's bill makes it a class B felony to harm someone's                                                                     
reputation, bringing the current statute down to second degree                                                                  
criminal impersonation which is a class A misdemeanor.  In                                                                      
addition, SB 259 fine tunes the theft and fraud  statute by                                                                     
replacing the term "access device" for a credit card so if a person                                                             
steals an access device, including a phone number, that person can                                                              
be prosecuted for theft of a credit card or fraudulent use of a                                                                 
credit card.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted the Governor's bill also clarifies the law in                                                               
dealing with technology in regards to child pornography--creating                                                               
child pornography includes making an electronic portrait of a child                                                             
and putting it in a computer network.  It also expands the criminal                                                             
use of a computer, which is a class C felony, by providing that it                                                              
is a violation of a statute to add misleading new information to a                                                              
computer which a person may have access to but they are going                                                                   
beyond their authorization or they are accessing the system without                                                             
authorization.  It prohibits a person without authorization from                                                                
getting proprietary financial information about other people and                                                                
going in and changing information they have no right to change.  It                                                             
also prohibits encrypting (with no authorization to encrypt) and                                                                
decrypting information.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 662                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Ms. Carpeneti and asked her to work with                                                                
staff to provide a committee substitute to incorporate some of the                                                              
ideas she discussed.                                                                                                            
MS. CARPENETI responded she would be happy to help.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR introduced Lt. David Hudson, Alaska State Troopers,                                                             
and asked him to work with Ms. Carpeneti and Mr. Pound in writing                                                               
a committee substitute.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BLAIR MCCUNE, Deputy Director, the Alaska Public Defender                                                                   
Agency, stated this is a difficult area of the law and the bill                                                                 
will need some care in the drafting process.  Banking and credit                                                                
law practices have changed a lot in the last few years because of                                                               
internet access and because of increases in credit card use.  His                                                               
main concern is that the law should be drafted narrowly  so that                                                                
minors purchasing alcohol and using false ID cards are not treated                                                              
on the same level as someone who is using someone else's identity                                                               
in a fraudulent way.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. McCune to assist in the drafting process                                                              
to help develop a more comprehensive bill.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GLENN HACKNEY, AARP, stated that theft of identity is a real                                                                
concern for the senior community of Alaska.  Many members of the                                                                
senior population have a long standing credit history and they are                                                              
concerned that nothing happen to that history.  There are seniors                                                               
who will not use credit cards or the internet because of this                                                                   
concern.  Mr. Hackney stated he supports SB 259.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated the bill will be held in committee until a                                                               
committee substitute has been drafted.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          SJR 30-REPEAL OF REGULATIONS BY LEGISLATURE                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1196                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND introduced the bill by saying the regulation process is                                                               
creating laws without the process of an elected official.  The                                                                  
process is based on a bureaucratic agenda with no one accountable.                                                              
Through the previous attorney general there is a ruling that the                                                                
Lt. Governor's signature is mandatory for a regulation.  This                                                                   
legislation will correct the problem, allowing the legislature to                                                               
change regulations that do not meet the original intent of statute.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS commented this is the same legislation that has been                                                              
rejected by the voters several times, and he asked the Chairman why                                                             
he feels the outcome for this bill will be any different.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR responded this is a continuing education process                                                                
and he hopes that in the debate the public will understand that                                                                 
some of the regulations passed, such as RS 2477, are regulatory                                                                 
changes and not statutory changes which the legislature can not                                                                 
change promptly.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked if the Senate State Affairs Committee waived                                                                
this bill and if the Judiciary Committee is the only committee                                                                  
considering this legislation.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said last year the bill went through two committees                                                             
and was passed by the Senate.  The bill was sent to the House and                                                               
went through the full committee process but did not pass on the                                                                 
floor of the House and, therefore, was not referred back to the                                                                 
Rules Committee.  Chairman Taylor has been advised that the bill is                                                             
not active and needs to be recreated.  This is the same bill the                                                                
Senate passed last year.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY moved SJR 30 out of committee with individual                                                                    
recommendations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS objected.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked for discussion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY stated one of the top complaints from his                                                                        
constituents  concern regulations.  It is hard to explain that the                                                              
legislature has limited powers over regulations that are adopted by                                                             
the executive branch.  He feels if the public understood how                                                                    
difficult it is to correct a mistake in the law they would approve                                                              
this legislation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY said the only way for the legislature to correct a                                                               
problem is by passing a bill that removes the authority of an                                                                   
agency to do a specific regulation--which will be subject to veto                                                               
by the governor.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY feels this legislation is important and will empower                                                             
the public by giving the legislature the power to act on their                                                                  
behalf.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that in the past the legislature repealed                                                             
regulations by resolution but a supreme court decision changed                                                                  
this.  This legislation will be overturning that supreme court                                                                  
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked if Senator Donley believed that in the three                                                                
times the voters rejected this legislation they did not understand                                                              
what they were voting on, and  that it only takes legislators to                                                                
educate them to change their minds.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY responded no, but he has been amazed that in all the                                                             
people he has talked with no one remembers this issue being on the                                                              
ballot or how they voted.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1605                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS commented that the issue has been on the ballot three                                                             
times and the public's position seems clear.  There are individuals                                                             
who have problems with specific regulations but regulations are not                                                             
made for individuals but are made for the greater public good.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY responded there are many members of the public who                                                               
feel regulations are not made for the greater public good but are                                                               
for the greater good of the bureaucracy that adopts them.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that people are upset about the                                                                       
regulation the Department of Environmental Conservation(DEC) passed                                                             
to raise the cost for a food permit from $75.00 to $400.00 annually                                                             
for day care centers.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked if this is disconnected from this legislatures                                                              
attitude toward DEC's budget.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR responded yes and that no one in the legislature                                                                
imagined that DEC would have leveraged and utilized regulations to                                                              
the extent they are today--using them as a revenue source.  Nor did                                                             
the legislature imagine that the Department of Fish and Game would                                                              
be using regulations to demand cash from Ketchikan fishermen with                                                               
the threat of being shut down.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said many times after regulations have been adopted                                                             
it is discovered they impact in ways that were not intended, and a                                                              
correction can take years.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked if this is not why a governor is elected every                                                              
four years--holding him accountable for the executive branch.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR answered that you cannot wait four years for                                                                    
accountability and there are laws against committing, before an                                                                 
election, who will be appointed by the governor.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked if some of the regulation problems could be                                                                 
avoided if the legislature did a better job in writing the                                                                      
statutes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1880                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR responded that what he is looking for is an                                                                     
appropriate check and balance within the creation of the regulation                                                             
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD stated that the public does not trust the                                                                       
legislature and that the referendum process should be changed to                                                                
allow the initiative process to apply to the regulations.  Once a                                                               
regulation is repealed by initiative it cannot be reinstated for a                                                              
longer period of time than the two years a statute takes.  The                                                                  
standard for regulations is too weak and the constitution should be                                                             
changed to say that no regulation should be permitted unless it is                                                              
essential  for the express purpose of the statute.  The public will                                                             
probably vote for this but it will hamstring the government.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD commented the bill should be changed in some way so                                                             
that it will not be identical to the bill that passed last year.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY asked for unanimous consent to withdraw his motion.                                                              
With no objection, the motion to move the bill was withdrawn.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
After discussion by committee members on the rewording of SJR 30,                                                               
SENATOR HALFORD proposed that line 6 of SJR 30 be deleted and that                                                              
line 7 read:                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     A regulation found inconsistent with its enabling statute is                                                               
     repealed by a resolution concurred in by a majority of the                                                                 
     members of each house.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD moved to amend amendment 1.  With no objection, the                                                             
amendment passed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD moved SJR 30 from committee with individual                                                                     
recommendations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS objected.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The roll was taken on the motion.  Voting yea:  Senator Halford,                                                                
Senator Donley and Chairman Taylor.  Voting nay:  Senator Ellis                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that there are two bills pending on the                                                               
direct election of the attorney general.  A report from the                                                                     
Privatization Task Force indicates the attorney generals office is                                                              
not found within the constitution but is a job created through a                                                                
legislative act.  A bill is being drafted on the job description of                                                             
the AG and will be before the committee at a later date.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
With no further business to come before the committee, CHAIRMAN                                                                 
TAYLOR adjourned the meeting at 2:37 p.m.                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects